September 3, 2008 on 3:38 pm | In Grassroots comics love, Real Life Experiences!, Swinging through WU
Hey folks! A while back when I first saw the solicits for DC’s new miniseries El Diablo written by Jai Nitz with art by Phil Hester and Ande Parks, I got really excited. Being the huge Blue Beetle fan that I am and seeing the writer behind the all Spanish issue of BB bringing another Hispanic reimagining of a DC legacy character to the DCU proper, well, I was so excited I decided I needed to talk with Jai about it, so much so that I had mentioned the idea to a few people around the office.
Jai ran into some Wizard folk at SDCC and mentioned doing some promotion for El Diablo, they passed him my way knowing I was already interested in the book, we chatted a bit and that led to an interview with Jai and Phil about the book (Check that out RIGHT HERE!) and a long email conversation with Jai about Hispanics in comics, including a lot of talk about Jaime Reyes as Blue Beetle and his new incarnation of El Diablo.
Here’s the conversation. I had a great time chatting with Jai about this, so I hope you all have a good time reading it!
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THE LOUDEST MONKEY: I guess I’ll start by asking about the all-Spanish Blue Beetle issue, as that is what led to my desire to have this conversation in the first place. Who’s idea was it? Yours? The folks at DC? And was it difficult getting it picked up by the powers that be there? What was the process like leading to that issue?
JAI NITZ: I was working on El Diablo when I got a call from DC editorial about the BB issue. Dan DiDio had the specific idea.
My initial pitch of El Diablo was to add another Hispanic character to the DCU, so they knew I’d be up for an all-Spanish story. They called and offered it to me. I took it.
Then we had a meeting to talk about the ground rules. We agreed to no “Spanglish”—it had to be all or nothing. We agreed that it wouldn’t take place in Ciudad Juarez or Mexico in general—that was too much of a story cheat , we wanted to show BB speaking Spanish in his native element. We agreed that Traci Thirteen would be our doorway into Jaime’s world. Once we had that, we batted around some story ideas, then I wrote up the issue. DC was very encouraging.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: It seems like the first step of making the new Blue Beetle Hispanic and that series’ success with fans has really opened the floodgates for the potential of a greater presence for Hispanic characters in the DCU. Obviously that’s encouraging to see, especially—as you said—since it’s being handled in a way that makes sense for the stories and not just for the sake of going, “Hey, let’s just make them speak Spanish for the heck of it!”
NITZ: A couple of things about that. First, it really should be noted that the folks at DC know what they’re doing. They aren’t throwing darts at a poster full of heroes and villains and plot points. They are trying to facilitate creators. They are trying to make sure the best people are in the best positions to succeed. That’s why my experiences on El Diablo and Blue Beetle have been so good.
Second, I read a thing in the paper this morning that says Whites will not be the majority in America by 2050. The fastest growing minority in the U.S. is Hispanics. Politicians know it. Coca-Cola knows it. MTV knows it. They’re planning for the future. Now, that’s 42 years in the future. Iron Man is about 42 years old, and he’s becoming a global icon. You’d think it would be smart to start sewing seeds now for a future Hispanic global icon. Makes sense, no?
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: Oh, it absolutely makes sense. But, in my opinion, the nicest part of it all is that companies are trying to do exactly what you described: facilitating creators who want to help grow this area of comics. Growing any area of comics is bound to succeed if it’s about good storytelling and great art instead of just marketing books for the sake of marketing books.
Based on that, how did El Diablo come about? How was the pitch received and what was some of the basic process behind that in relation to what we’ve been talking about? And on a story related note, is he going to be part of growing the Hispanic community in the DCU with Blue Beetle crossovers and the like?
NITZ: I had an idea to do a new Hispanic character at DC. Remember El Dorado from the Superfriends?
He was a Latino superhero that was made up just to add some color to the traditional Justice League characters. He followed Apache Chief, Samurai and Black Vulcan—actually, this wasn’t a bad idea, look at the Superfriends sometime, it’s a bunch of white dudes and Wonder Woman every now and then. El Dorado was seven kinds of terrible. Just awful. He was basically the only Latino character I saw in comics or in cartoons growing up.
Basically, it was him and wrestler Tito Santana.
Then there was the 1989-90 El Diablo comic from DC by Gerard Jones and Mike Parobeck. That character was also Latino, and just as bad as El Dorado to me—Please note: I’ve gone back and read those comics and talked to Gerry Jones about his approach, and I have a much greater understanding of the character than my initial reaction.
I knew editor Jann Jones at DC was open to me pitching her. I went to New York to visit the DC offices and pitched her the idea. She said that it was great and I should write it up. I reached into my bag and handed it to her. She told me she’d get it to Dan [DiDio], and I wandered down the hall. I was talking to Mike Marts when Jann poked her head in and asked if I’d be around. I said I would. She said that was great, because I had a meeting with Dan DiDio in fifteen minutes. Marts looks at me, dead serious, and says, “Don’t blow it.” So, I pitched Dan and the rest is history.
El Diablo will crossover with the DCU in his own book, but I don’t see him appearing anywhere else just yet. I could see him showing up in Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Secret Six or a half-dozen other titles. It’s really up to DC.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: So, seems the market and the publishers are ready for this, do you think Hispanics in comics are only going to rise? Or is it still a rocky road ahead? Especially in superhero comics, where so many of the established characters and teams lack some of the diversty and color you mentioned. I mean, you have Hispanic cast members in Vertigo books like “The Exterminators,” but that is really a whole ‘nother ball game.
NITZ: I think the publishers see the big picture and they’re getting ready for more diversity in their superheroes. It’s a combination rocky road/uphill battle.
Look at the flak DC caught for making the new Blue Beetle a Hispanic character. I’d argue that there was less argument about him being Hispanic than there was argument over how they handled getting rid of Ted Kord, but there were still detractors because of his race. I say, you can’t make an omelette unless you break a few eggs. Maybe comics would be higher profile if Hawkman was Asian? Maybe more readers would check it out if a new Robin was Black? You never know until you try. I firmly believe that Jack Kirby would have made a more racially diverse Marvel Universe if he was given the chance. Look what he did with the New Gods!
As far as Vertigo is concerned, you nailed it, it’s a whole ‘nother ball game.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: It should be really interesting though to see how publishers continue to expand in this arena. I think one of the things that sold me on Jaime as Blue Beetle was the whole idea that he would be El Paso’s hero. It just felt organic. It wasn’t just tossing some kid into Gotham or Metropolis and being like, “Oh, also, he speaks Spanish!” It expanded the DCU to have this new geographic corner along with the new landscape for the legacy character in Blue Beetle. And it’s been so great to see books like Manhunter tackling issues like immigration and seeing Blue Beetle show up, because it makes sense—she’s by the border, he lives by the border, odds are they could logically meet.
Now, I know you mentioned not wanting to do the all Spanish Blue Beetle issue in Mexico as it was kind of an easy cop out, but it’s been awesome to see a book like Marvel’s Captain Britain and MI 13 crop up and give the status of that universe in another locale. Is it time to see that type of international book in the DCU in a Spanish speaking country?
NITZ: I love the idea of Gotham and Metropolis, but I hate that they exist in the DCU alongside New York and Chicago. The fictional cities of a shared universe are hard to explain to non-comic folks. I was really happy they just set BB in El Paso instead of “Dos Rios” where the ‘89-’90 El Diablo took place. I agree with you. It’s organic. It flows together. It doesn’t feel forced. I’m all for a moratorium on new fictional cities in America.
I would love to see DC do a book set in a foreign country. I’d love to see a Canadian superteam written and drawn by creators that can capture the nuances. I’d love to see a Great Ten book, or a Super Young Team book. I’ve always wanted to do a book set in modern Russia, with a Russian superhero. I think a Global Guardians book would be cool. Why not? Let’s do books that expand people’s worldview.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: Especially with superhero movies making so much money around the globe! I have a friend from England who was begging me a while back to tell him anything and everything I knew about British superheroes. One of my gripes with comics has always been, “Really that much happens in New York/Metropolis/Gotham?! Why doesn’t the Joker just go to Paris and run the show?!”
NITZ: I agree with your buddy; why not go to Paris? Why not go to London? Why not go to a city where crime pays like Moscow? Why stay in Gotham and get your butt kicked all day.
Okay, the Joker needs Batman and vice versa, but if you’re, oh, the Mad Hatter, why not move on? Obviously, most logic doesn’t apply to superhero comics. Still, make your stage the world, to turn a phrase.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: Switching gears backwards a bit, with a book like El Diablo that has the potential to add some distinct diversity to the DCU and draw a new audience, what is the goal? Is it always—first and foremost—good story? Is it a gateway for people who can relate more to that character? Or is it a combo of both?
NITZ: The purpose of El Diablo was to tell a good story that had Hispanic underpinnings. Life is different for minorities. Life is different for people in America that come from other cultures. That interests me and gets my creative juices flowing. I wanted to tell a story about that. I wanted to take the well-worn DCU legacy story and turn it on its ear. A good story is a good story, but I wanted to tell one from a more diverse point of view.
At the same point, the life of a superhero is a very different life than that of a regular guy. What have been the challenges of getting across the differences of life as a minority while having to deal with the obvious differences the life of a superhero brings with it?
“Crime” plus “minorities” has a certain connotation. Crime in minority communities in America is complicated. Hell, crime in minority communities around the globe is complicated. I love it when people try to simplify the problem and sound like idiots. “Crime” plus “superheroes” has a certain connotation. People are mad that I’m making a drug dealer into a hero [in El Diablo], because a drug dealer could never be a hero—that’s ludicrous, but never mind that.
El Diablo isn’t a hero; he’s a protagonist. He’s the main character. That doesn’t make him a hero. He very well may become one, but for now, he’s just a guy trying to do what he thinks is right. Part of what makes El Diablo interesting for me to write, and hopefully for people to read, is that the connotations of crime in his society and in superhero society are two different things.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: That seems to go back to a lot of the duality of character we talked about in our conversation about “El Diablo.” (Check back for that interview later today, readers!) Does that add a reality to this character and a humanity that just making him “Juan I-Speak-Spanish” wouldn’t?
NITZ: That’s exactly it. Speaking Spanish or being Latino does not add a duality to a character, even when juxstaposed to an English/White world. Being a criminal to some and a savior to others is a duality. Being a Kryptonian alien while pretending to be human is a duality. That’s what I’m shooting for.
THE LOUDEST MONKEY: So, taking this whole conversation in as context, what comes next?
NITZ: Micro-scale? I’d like to have an outlet for the stories I want to tell. I want to tell stories about the duality that makes heroes interesting.
Macro-scale? I’d like to see every comic company embrace diversity. I’d like to see those comics get optioned to other media and show the world that the superhero isn’t a genre, it’s a tool to tell fables and parables about the human condition. It’d be great if everyone could see that the human condition doesn’t apply to only one race, color, or creed. It’d be even better if everyone got that lesson from comic books.
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El Diablo #1 (of 6) goes on sale tomorrow (Sept. 4), go pick it up!
And read more about El Diablo in my interview with Jai and artist Phil Hester!
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